21 replies to this topic

[Raj_Singh]

So a friend of mine sent these videos to me of Singhs at Hazur Sahib killing a goat and putting the blood of the goat on swords. What is the purpose of this? I have never heard or seen this type of thing before. Doesn't doing this go against Sikh beliefs? So could someone please explain this?

****They actually show the goat being killed, so don't watch it if that will bother you******


Part 1:



Part 2:

[AmardeepSingh]

Shocking Video
http://forums.panthi...showtopic=27702

[Sukhdeep Singh]

The problem is that Hazoor Sahib has some non Sikh customs which has lead some rituals to take place . Example the ritual of Aarti in Hazoor Sahib, its a well known fact that this is Hindu ritual.

As the video demonstrates Jhatka is a ritual which has probaly been influenced by Islam, as Muslims believe that the Killing of Animals is a holy thing. Jhatka has no place in Gurmat Maryada despite what these new Maryadas say.

[Nygeer Jaspreet Singh]

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

ok wat im tryin to figure out is why hazur sahib can get away with certain things and the rest of the sikh world cant? since they are doin things that are not Gurmat, should we consider the people who do these acts Sikhs of the Guru?

[Sukhdeep Singh]

Nygeer Jaspreet Singh, on May 5 2009, 03:43 AM, said:

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

ok wat im tryin to figure out is why hazur sahib can get away with certain things and the rest of the sikh world cant? since they are doin things that are not Gurmat, should we consider the people who do these acts Sikhs of the Guru?

Veer Ji be assured that nobody is getting away with anything. Those people who perform these things at Guru Jis house will either be dealt with in this life or the next. Sikh organizations and people have already told these people not to do these acts but they have been repeatedly ignored.

[Nygeer Jaspreet Singh]

Sukhdeep Singh, on May 4 2009, 11:47 PM, said:

Nygeer Jaspreet Singh, on May 5 2009, 03:43 AM, said:

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

ok wat im tryin to figure out is why hazur sahib can get away with certain things and the rest of the sikh world cant? since they are doin things that are not Gurmat, should we consider the people who do these acts Sikhs of the Guru?

Veer Ji be assured that nobody is getting away with anything. Those people who perform these things at Guru Jis house will either be dealt with in this life or the next. Sikh organizations and people have already told these people not to do these acts but they have been repeatedly ignored.

yeah i guess ur rite but wat if some1 who doesnt understand real sikhism sees this and think the wrong thing...thats kinda wat im worried about

[Son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji]

I heard that after jhatka of goat at Hazoor Sahib, Singh Sahib Kulwant Singh Ji (Jathedar) of Takht Sahib was asked to eat. He said he can only do jhatka, eating is not allowed. So even though there is clear influence of Hinduism (they also sacrifice animals) or Islam, the person at post of Jathedar knows it is not right to eat it.

Nygeer Jaspreet Singh, on May 4 2009, 08:43 PM, said:

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

ok wat im tryin to figure out is why hazur sahib can get away with certain things and the rest of the sikh world cant? since they are doin things that are not Gurmat, should we consider the people who do these acts Sikhs of the Guru?

[Nygeer Jaspreet Singh]

that doesnt make 2 much sense...the jathedar allows animals to be killed on gurdwara premises but he doesnt eat it? its kinda like someone cooking meat in a gurdwara but not eating it...or sumthin like that

[Son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji]

I agree the whole thing doesn't make sense, sadly. But what can we do? Lets work on improving ourselves and those around us - however much is possible.

[1kAuR1]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Jhatka is part of the maryada for some nihung jatha's, however it is personal choice whether to eat it or not.

For example Baba Nihal Singh- Buddha Dal allows nihungs at Harianbelan to do jathka and eat but does not practise this himself. This is also true for most nihung jatha's where the mukhi dont eat jathka meat.

Personally jathka is a old and unnecessary practice however we shouldnt be quick to judge or disagree the main point is to focus on our own sikhi.

Bhul chuk maaf

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[SunSingh]

according to baba gurbachan singh ji bhindrenvaley sikhs are not allowed to eat meat, however they are allowed to do chatka of an animal and eat it dduring timesof emergency. i think that the very long periods of warfare during early sikh history ended up with chatka becoming kind of institutionalised in nihang dals. they then kept it as a tradition and continue it today. also, when chandi di vaar is read, it need a belie dhaan of blood. the blood comes from chatka'd goats. it could also just have sukhmani sahib read as the dhaan. these are teh reasons why i think chatka exists in some sikh groups.

as for hazoor sahib, jathedar ji is against eating meat, i think he is against the chatka practices as well. he is a bhramgyani (according to baba thakur singh ji bhindrenwaley). the role of jathedar, similar to jathedar of akaal takht, grants certain powers, but it does not grant control over the takht sahib itself. rahit of the takht at hazoor sahib is under control of a committee, just like rahit at akaal takht is under control of a committee.

[Sukhdeep Singh]

SunSingh, on May 7 2009, 06:34 PM, said:

according to baba gurbachan singh ji bhindrenvaley sikhs are not allowed to eat meat, however they are allowed to do chatka of an animal and eat it dduring timesof emergency. i think that the very long periods of warfare during early sikh history ended up with chatka becoming kind of institutionalised in nihang dals. they then kept it as a tradition and continue it today. also, when chandi di vaar is read, it need a belie dhaan of blood. the blood comes from chatka'd goats. it could also just have sukhmani sahib read as the dhaan. these are teh reasons why i think chatka exists in some sikh groups.

as for hazoor sahib, jathedar ji is against eating meat, i think he is against the chatka practices as well. he is a bhramgyani (according to baba thakur singh ji bhindrenwaley). the role of jathedar, similar to jathedar of akaal takht, grants certain powers, but it does not grant control over the takht sahib itself. rahit of the takht at hazoor sahib is under control of a committee, just like rahit at akaal takht is under control of a committee.

This is false, Chatka has never been a Sikh practice. Singhs never eat meat even when stuck in ANandpur Sahip. They lived off Amrit Ras, as Baba Harnam Singh Ji ( Rampur Kehra) has demonstrated this is possible when he did not eat for 40 days because he believed GurBani contained food within it.. Similarily Singhs who were in the Hazoori of Guru Sahib were in so much Anand that there basic necessities and functions were forgotten. They were true Brahmgianis they gave everything for their Guru. They were at such a spiritual vasta that they didnt need food to survive. SImilary BrahamGiani Baba Attar Singh Ji ( Mastuana) survived a year without eating food. From the beginning of history Guru Sahib through divine miracles has always provided his panth with healthy and spirtual food he will continue to do so. There is no reason for chatka in the past, present or future. There is no truth or power in chatka. Guru Sahib will always provide Chardhi Kala langar for his faithful SIkhs.

Edited by Sukhdeep Singh, 08 May 2009 - 01:25 AM.

[chatanga]

right so the sikhs left GuruJi at the Kila becos they refused to eat the naam amrit?

nice vid. anyone got any more ?

Edited by chatanga, 09 May 2009 - 05:11 PM.

[Akal]

Takht Sri Darbar Sahib Hazur Sahib is a Sikh gurudwara located on the banks of the River Godavari at the city of Nanded in the state of Maharashtra, Western India. The structure is built at the location where Guru Gobind Singh left this world. It is one of the five 'takhts' (Seats of Temporal authority) in Sikhism. The inner room of the temple is called the Angitha Sahib and is built over the place where Guru Gobind Singh was cremated in 1708. Sikh historical records show that Guru Gobind Singh ordered his Sikhs not to create a monument to commemorate his leaving this world, anyone who defied this order would suffer the death of his/her offspring. Interestingly, Maharaja Ranjit Singh ordered its construction, and most of Maharaja Ranjit Singh's offspring died, either through bad luck or unusual circumstances. The temple was finished in 1839; later that year, Maharaja Ranjit Singh died. After a series of killings and accidents, most of Maharaja Ranjit Singh's offsprings died, with an exception of Duleep Singh who was sent to UK. There he married Bamba Miller and had 6 children. All the 6 children died without an issue. Thus all the offspring of Maharaja Ranjit Singh died.

The Takht houses both the Sri Guru Granth Sahib and the Sri Dasam Granth. This follows the pattern of Takht Patna Sahib as well.

[BabbarKhalsa]

1kAuR1, on May 6 2009, 03:41 PM, said:

Jhatka is part of the maryada for some nihung jatha's, however it is personal choice whether to eat it or not.

For example Baba Nihal Singh- Buddha Dal allows nihungs at Harianbelan to do jathka and eat but does not practise this himself. This is also true for most nihung jatha's where the mukhi dont eat jathka meat.

Baba Nihal Singh, who actually are head of Tarna Dal (and not Buddha Dal), do NOT allow any kind of animal sacrifice at Harian Belan, not even eating it. Neither do they do themselves, nor do they preach others to do. Rather they'll straighten you and your questions regarding this, if you ever happen to ask them. They also strictly restrict the Tarna Dal Nihangs to not participate in such practices in other dals.

[sher_panjabi]

Who should we believe? Who should we follow? Who's Rehit is the right one?


Any puraatan history is NOT our Guru.
Any historical book or granth is NOT our Guru.
Any jathedaar, Dal, or Dera is NOT our Guru.

Our Guru is SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JEE.




The concept of "Jhatka" as it is known today is a Hindu one borrowed from the Rajputs who still do it today and have done it for ages before the Sikhs. Proponents of this practice explain this concept as a "Singh" cutting the head of a goat with one blow while shouting a Jaikara (the cry of "Sat Sri Akaal" (God is True). But in Gurbani we are faced with the question:

ਜੀਅ ਬਧਹੁ ਸੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਕਰਿ ਥਾਪਹੁ ਅਧਰਮੁ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਤ ਭਾਈ ॥
ਆਪਸ ਕਉ ਮੁਨਿਵਰ ਕਰਿ ਥਾਪਹੁ ਕਾ ਕਉ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਸਾਈ ॥2॥
"You kill living beings, and call it a righteous action. Tell me, brother, what would you call an unrighteous action? If you religious people are doing "religious" killing for meat, then what is A-dharam (atheism)? If you are a religious person then whom will we call a butcher? ||2||"
(Ang 1103)

ਕਬੀਰ ਜੋਰੀ ਕੀਏ ਜੁਲਮੁ ਹੈ ਕਹਤਾ ਨਾਉ ਹਲਾਲੁ ॥
ਦਫਤਰਿ ਲੇਖਾ ਮਾਂਗੀਐ ਤਬ ਹੋਇਗੋ ਕਉਨੁ ਹਵਾਲੁ ॥੧੮੭॥
ਕਬੀਰ ਖੂਬੁ ਖਾਨਾ ਖੀਚਰੀ ਜਾ ਮਹਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਲੋਨੁ ॥
ਹੇਰਾ ਰੋਟੀ ਕਾਰਨੇ ਗਲਾ ਕਟਾਵੈ ਕਉਨੁ ॥੧੮੮॥
"O Kabeer! (Tell the Mullah,) to use force is tyranny, (you grab animals and saying God's Name you kill them) you you call this legal. (But committing this sin, have you ever thought) when your account is called for in the Court of the Lord, what will your condition be then? ||187|| O Kabeer! (Despite the Mullah eating meat, believing he is within God's Law) eating the dinner of beans and rice is excellent, in which there is only salt. Who would cut his throat (in paying for the sin) to have meat with his bread? ||188||
(Ang 1374)

Someone could argue that Guru Sahib is addressing the Muslims and in the other cases the Hindus when giving teachings of not to kill animals for food. However, Gurbani is clear:

ਪਰਥਾਇ ਸਾਖੀ ਮਹਾ ਪੁਰਖ ਬੋਲਦੇ ਸਾਝੀ ਸਗਲ ਜਹਾਨੈ ॥
"Great holy men speak the teachings by relating them to individual situations, but the whole world shares in them."
(Ang 647)

[Santokh Singh Khalsa]

What gives them the right to violate Sikh principles? First of all the meat-eating is disgusting, but doing it on the premises of a Gurdwara, more specifically on one of the TAKHTS is even worse. Being too far from Punjab, surrounded by Hindus has messed with their heads. And could someone tell me why they claim to be 'preserver of the TRUE Khalsa traditions when they clearly violate Guru's teaching?

[PritamSinghKhalsa]

They hurry up and grab the head cause if they take 10 seconds more then the ritual becomes futile? as it already is anyway.

It looks as hindu or halal as you can get chanting Allah Akbar or Bole so nihal while "cleaning" swords with blood sounds as backwards as kris-crosses pants. They dont need to do that they WANT to do that which is a waste of time and life. If in need I could see but it would have to be very severely life threatening in order to do jhatka, but nihangs do lots against what Sikhs should do, but... since they are "nihang" they can break rules cause they wear blue People try to say tradition in order to break rules, Guru Sahib taught people that just because its tradition doesnt mean its correct, hindus do this and that cause its "tradition" but stopping and thinking about why or what makes you understand that breaking a "tradition" sometimes is more correct than doing a useless ritual. What do they gain from cutting a head off????? nothing, so why continue to do something that benefits you nothing. They are so high on bhang they forget to be a Sikh due to "tradition or bhang and goat cutting" I bet muslims and hindus laugh at them as a group because they think they are so Sikh while using bhang and cutting off goat heads while doing arti like stupid "traditionalists" that dont think what they are doing and wasting. In the bible people used to sacrafice n animal and they would burn the blood on a stone altar at Solomons temple [current day blue mosque] (which isnt a mosque but a shrine) they thought God wants them to burn some blood to get or do what?????? They need to do jhatka of there own heads.

Excuses is all they make while holding dearly to useless rituals.

Lots of things in Sikhi were passed down orally which has room for corruption and today corruption goes alongside alot of "Tradition". (Obviously you can see that Im tired of hearing the word tradition in order to justify some intoxicated actions done by some "Sikhs")

Next they will say its a tradition that their family gets drunk more than they are awake cause its tradition, that will be their excuse to drink liquor in the future

[AmardeepSingh]

Pritam Singh veerji you make some good points about tradition

Quote

People try to say tradition in order to break rules, Guru Sahib taught people that just because its tradition doesnt mean its correct, hindus do this and that cause its "tradition" but stopping and thinking about why or what makes you understand that breaking a "tradition" sometimes is more correct than doing a useless ritual.

[BabbarKhalsa]

deleted.

Edit: not yet. LoL

Edited by BabbarKhalsa, 04 June 2009 - 06:21 PM.